Zola Simone on her self-labeled Androgynous Pop in New York

I met Zola Simone at a rooftop party thrown by mutual friends last fall. She was wearing baggy jeans, a graphic t-shirt, and a beanie, and when we got to talking I could immediately feel her vibrance and sense of self-possession. We started chatting about what had brought us there that night, and she told me she went to the Clive Davis Institute at NYU and had recently put out a song called “Therapist” produced by one of our aforementioned mutual friends, Jaden Tyler. When I went home, I looked her up and found that her music was full of the passionate personality I had met that night. Her lyrics were equally soulful and direct, rich with self-reflection, related to her relationships and the queer experience, and her music was full of commanding, catchy topline melodies that danced with experimental pop production. She’s coined the term “androgynous pop” to describe her genre-loose music, and her style has found its way to festival stages, news channels, and the Netflix special Atypical, as her 2021 hit “Easy” was notably featured on the show’s finale. 
“Therapist”, the song that initially drew me to her, is a puzzle piece of Zola Simone’s second full-length album Kaleidoscope which was recently released on February 21. The project has come together over the past year and a half with “Pirouette”, the first single released during the summer of 2023, followed by a series of three EPs depicting the colors of the titular Kaleidoscope, “Red”, “Green”, and “Blue”. During this rollout, Zola, a Boston native herself, performed at the city’s Boston Calling music festival and will be celebrating the release of her album in Boston at the Middle East Club on February 28.

Earlier this month, Zola invited me over to her apartment on the Lower East Side to chat about her new album. I walked up her street on a brisk Wednesday afternoon, and she met me outside after grabbing a sandwich and Sprite from the deli next door. Inside her place, it smelled of incense and black and white photography hung on the walls. We sat together on her sage green sofa and got to talking about all things Kaleidoscope, her inspirations, and what’s next for the young artist. 

[This interview has been edited for length and clarity.]

Tell me about the new album and its rollout. What inspired the approach to release an album spaced out between three EPs throughout the last year, and how do you hope that listeners engage with it? 

I’m guilty of having such a short attention span, and I think as a music fan, a lot of us are guilty of that as well. Being on the artist’s end, it can be a bit frustrating to have people ask “When’s the next single?” right after you dropped one. You’ll promote a song and people say, “Oh, drop it now”, but they’re not thinking how I’ll have to pitch it to the distributor and do all these things behind the scenes. They’re just like “I hear the song. I want the song” right? 

I tend to write a lot of music– it all just comes out of me, and I wanted to release things in a way that would satiate that need for new content. It’s kind of like a little Russian nesting doll. You’re like, “more and more and more and more and more”. 

I hope people receive it positively, obviously, but I hope people see that there was a lot of thought put into how it was released and also recognize deviation from the normal way to release an album. And hopefully, that’s exciting and catches people’s attention, and it works against that constant need for new content.

How has the process been in terms of writing and producing each EP over time? Did you always intend to release the album like this, or has it been a sort of compilation of your work?

My mom had a lot of influence on the way it was released. She’s a project manager, and that’s really what she did for this project. She gave her overall ideas, and I always take her input – if it’s good, I’ll tell her if it isn’t. It was really a collaborative effort. It was taking what was already there and doing something that made sense, and yeah, it wasn’t initially supposed to be like that because I don’t like thinking about how I’m going to release things before I finish them, because I feel like that you’re getting in your own way. So it was fun to see it all come together and be like, “Oh, wow, this makes sense now that I have all these pieces”. It’s like a collage.

I’ve read that you’ve coined the term “androgynous pop” to describe your style. How did that come about? Do you think about genre or do you let it just flow naturally?

With genre, I feel you can’t not think about it, but you can’t think about it in a way that will disrupt the process or make you fit into a certain box. I think Beyonce just said something amazing about this I don’t want to misquote her because she’s Beyonce, but about how genres kind of just fit people into boxes. And I think labels can be good –  labels and genres or whatever, but they can also be divisive. So I see myself as kind of “genreless” in the same way that I see my relationship with gender and gender expression. Kind of like genderless or all genders, you know, it’s that everything and nothing. It can be either/or and they’re kind of the same if that makes any sense. I have a song about that on the album- it’s one of the bonus tracks that’s coming out with the album. It’s called “Everything/Nothing”.

I came up with “androgynous pop” while I was in my music marketing class at Clive. We did an exercise where we came up with our own subgenre because it’s hard to differentiate yourself and break through the noise. The exercise was to attach a non-musical word to whatever genre you’re in. So I was like, okay, “andro-pop”, because it’s a little bit like me. It’s all over the place. It’s kind of hard to pin down. It’s everything. It’s nothing. It’s a little bit of both. And I think that’s who I am as a person – and my music is an extension of who I am as a person, so why wouldn’t it be the same?

Have you had kind of any enlightening experiences experimenting with genre on this project?

I think the time I experimented the most [with genre] was tapping into my rapping skills on “Quarter Life Crisis” and “Siren”. That was really fun because I think it takes a whole different kind of confidence to rap. When you rap, compared to when you sing, you have no real pitch or timbre behind your voice. And it’s all really “bare bones”, and it gives more of a focus on the lyrics and the rhythm and the cadence of how you say things. And I think that’s cool.

Another thing that I did was release sped-up or pitched-down versions of songs, which I did with “Pirouette”, but I decided with “One Night Only” to only release it pitched down and slowed down because I thought that it fit that vibe and aesthetic. I was listening to stuff like Ari Abdul and Chase Atlantic, like dark pop. 

I’m inspired by everything I listen to, and I want to try out inspiration from all these different people. I feel like that’s very reflected in my music, because of that, there is something for everybody, and I think that’s a unique thing about my brand and my image. There’s kind of no brand.

You mentioned “Siren”. I love how that song taps into mythological themes. I’m curious about what was the motivation and to derive inspiration frim that imagery. And when writing, do you often seek out external narratives to fuel your own?

Yeah, definitely. You can say what you want about her music, but I think Taylor Swift is very creative in the fact that she draws from things that are outside of her own life. You see that with folklore especially in “Betty”, and that inspired me to step outside of myself, because why should we stop writing made-up stories when we’re little kids? You know, why not keep doing that? So that’s something that I tapped into with this song. 

I loved Greek mythology growing up. I love it because it’s history and it’s kind of like fiction as well. It’s cool. I think it has that sense of whimsy and creativity and otherworldliness that we all kind of stopped having at a certain age. So that’s why I love it still, and I thought it would be cool to draw from.

What initially compelled you to pursue music as a career? Has this always been something that you wanted to do? How do you view your work as both a writer and performer?

It’s funny because I don’t really have a moment. I think that’s what makes it so special because it wasn’t some sort of revelation or event that spurred my love for it. It’s just always been like an inherent, innate part of me. I have a very documented life because my mom is a photographer, and I am very interested in why we do the things we do and why we are drawn to the things that we’re drawn to. Looking at those videos of me at like two years old with the spoon in my mouth pretending it’s a microphone – it’s clear that it’s not because I saw whoever in concert or heard someone on the radio. It’s just like I was born with a spoon in my hand singing John Denver because I’ve always loved it. It’s also interesting because my mom is not a musical person whatsoever, and I don’t know who my dad is. So that’s definitely a cool mystery in my life of how that passion and ability has always been with me.

As for how I work, I can speak to the writer part first. I started writing as a way to cope with uncomfortable feelings. I don’t think many people are good at sitting with uncomfortable feelings, but I feel like me especially. I feel that feeling of physical discomfort when I don’t say how I feel, and I couldn’t just cuss everyone out that I wanted to. It’s hard when you get caught up in the moment. You can’t articulate things as well. I had a poetry unit in elementary school, and I started writing. It was a way to deal with my feelings of being bullied, my feelings of feeling like I didn’t fit in and I was able to express myself. Then I learned GarageBand and that helped me compose and inspired more ideas and got me into learning how to be a self-sufficient, well-rounded artist. 

With performing I would say that it’s such an interesting thing because as a concertgoer, when you see somebody on stage and it’s a good concert, you know, it’s a good concert. When you see a bad concert, you know, it’s a bad concert, when you see somebody on stage, and it’s so good, you get that feeling that that person was born to do that, you know? Sometimes with people you’re like – oh, you were born to be a nurse, you know, you were born to be a lawyer –  you can tell that about them based on their personality. There is this moment of epiphany when you see someone that was born to do something and they are lost in the moment. They’re in flow. They’re not thinking. It’s just what they do. I feel like I get so lost in [performing] when I do it. I’m not a person that is very connected to my faith or necessarily even believes in God, and I know it might sound cringey, but performing is the closest I feel to a higher power. I feel like I let go, and I don’t feel like I let go of anything ever, in any other aspect of my life. So being able to get up there and let go and just let the energy take over like that’s what it’s about for me.

One of your performances last year was on CBS News in Boston and I saw your Instagram post about performing WLW songs live on the news. For you to have such an openness about your sexuality is undoubtedly meaningful and inspiring for many listeners. Have you had any particularly impactful moments with fans or friends who feel seen through your words?

Yeah, for sure. There are two instances that come to mind. I got a DM from someone who said that my music helped them come out to their family. Upon seeing that, I immediately burst into tears because – it shouldn’t be a privilege – but I live a very privileged life in the fact that I’m accepted and I have a lot of queer family and friends. That’s just always been normal to me. So unfortunately, it takes moments like that to remind me that not everybody has that experience and that what I’m doing matters– and it’s not just for me – it’s also for other people, even if that wasn’t the initial intention, even if it was just for me to cope with that shit. So it would make sense that other people would listen to my music to cope with whatever shit they were going through. So that was definitely a moment for me. Another moment was when someone told me that “What It Feels Like” –  the song that I was performing on the news – was what they played as their walk-on song for their wedding with their wife.

You know monthly listeners are cool. Having a million streams is cool. But you’ve got to remember that they’re not just numbers – that they are people with stories and out of everybody they could listen to, they chose me. When you’re an artist, you have to remember that some people, if you’re lucky, view you the same way that you view your favorite artists. And that’s really like a very crazy thing to me.

You’re from Boston and it’s evident that Boston is a large part of your identity. Last year, I know you also performed at Boston Calling, and you’re having a release party for your project later this month in Boston. What is the music scene like there today and how do you feel that the city has shaped you as an artist?

Oh, it’s absolutely been such an amazing catalyst for everything that’s followed. I think that there’s such a sense of community in Boston that doesn’t necessarily exist here [in New York], or maybe I haven’t found it. Something my producer always says is that “a rising tide lifts all boats”. I think a lot of people in the industry don’t have that mentality, especially when you’re coming up together and you’re all starving artists and trying to make it. I think people have the misconception that there’s somehow less room for them when someone else succeeds, and I think that phenomenon is kind of nonexistent in Boston. Everybody sees their friends winning and sees it as a success for them because it is. I wouldn’t say it’s been easy, but things have just fallen into place and opportunities have come to me through word of mouth from friends and collaborators. There are a lot of musicians in Boston, but there’s just this sense of community and it’s great because there are tiny little communities, and then there’s the whole Boston music community. I mean, we have the Boston Music Awards, we have local stages at Boston Calling, we have people that work for these big companies like Bowery Presents and Citizens. Citizens Bank owns a lot of venues, and they asked me to speak on their panel, and they’ve had a lot of Boston artists speak on their panel to Berkeley students who want advice on how to get into the industry. There’s just so many opportunities that exist just because of the nature of how the music industry is there. It’s been such a great foundation and blessing to have built my career off of.

Now that you’ve moved to New York, do you feel that environment plays a role in your creative process? How do you balance your feelings between the two cities?

The first song I wrote here was “Boston”. That song is about feeling like I lost my creative spark when I moved here. It was really hard, because you go from being a big fish in a small pond to being just a fish in a city, in a city of millions. It’s like everybody’s a DJ. Everybody’s a musician. It’s so cool because there are so many people to meet and collaborate with, but it’s also like, oh shit, how do I break through the noise? How do I differentiate myself from all these other people? And you can’t let yourself slip into that mentality of if one person wins, I lose. That was definitely a struggle coming here because it’s easy to be jealous. It’s easy to be spiteful, it’s easy to compare yourself to other people. It’s hard to do the opposite of that. My mom always says, “Do the hard thing first. Get it out of the way.” So, you know, not everything that’s easy is good. So I did the hard thing and wrote a song about it, even though it took a long time and was hard to write. I felt like I lost the love of writing because it was so hard, but, everything waxes and wanes. Things are easy and they’re hard and things go up and down and you kind of just have to write it out. And you’ve got to know that if something is innate within you, you’re never going to lose it. That muscle can get smaller and the muscle can get bigger, but you can’t let yourself think that it’s lost and gone just because circumstances have changed.

Finally, after the release of this album, what do you feel is calling you? Do you have any dream collaborations and creative directions you plan to enact?

I have been experimenting with working with different producers in the city. I’ve been working with this amazing producer Lisa, who worked on “Red Wine Supernova” [by Chappell Roan], and another amazing producer who worked on stuff with Lawrence. I have these four songs that I worked on with Arc, my longtime collaborator, who I’ve done everything with for the past five years. He produced all of Kaleidoscope besides “Therapist”, which Jaden [Tyler] did. I think these four songs are definitely the best things I’ve ever made. I get so excited. I just want to share them with everybody.  I know I can’t put them out yet, but it should be around spring. I don’t know what I’m going to call the EP yet, but I have ideas of how to market it, and I have ideas of what I want the music videos to look like, and that usually is always like an afterthought. It’s like, “Oh shit, we have to make a video. Oh shit, we have to do a cover. Oh no, how are we going to market it? What am I going to caption the TikToks?” I know that now and it feels like I’ve entered a different era of my creative direction because it’s a thought-out thing that works in tandem and has happened alongside the actual creative music process. And that’s how it should be. Those things should work together and serve each other. So that’s exciting. My biggest dream is to go on tour. I really want to open for somebody because it’s a great way to meet people, see the world, and get new fans. I also really would love to work with Solomon Phonic, who just produced Lola Young’s new record and produces some Remi Wolf stuff. He actually just won a Grammy, I think. Also, Dan Nigro – Chapell [Roan],  Olivia [Rodrigo], Conan [Gray], he’s very in demand. But we’ll see. Lots to look forward to.